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Post by heals on Jun 4, 2022 19:14:25 GMT
Preface: Hello everyone, I’m heals. I was gonna post this later because I was worried people would think I, personally am trying to do this for my own benefit, but tbh I started feeling like it honestly does not matter when I post it, since I don’t have any confidence rn that things will truly improve, especially in end wipe.
This is about my ~1 year experience playing Sylvania and the problems that I have experienced. I may miss some problems others have felt, especially early in the wipe, but these are things that have directly impacted my enjoyment, and many others. Light players have a high attrition rate, they either leave the game entirely or play something else - and these factors are the reason why.
Furthermore, this is using the limited knowledge I have gained through hearing things from other people and seeing things for myself. I may misquote people or I may not have the full background, partially because of the lack of transparency with some decision making processes in this game, and partially because I personally am not like super close to the individuals in charge of that decision making process so I don’t hear stuff as directly down the grapevine and partially - and possibly importantly - this is my first real wipe so I don’t know an absolute ton about AoG.
Regardless…
EDIT: I'm only focusing on Christian Light for this post, as that is what I have experience with most heavily.
Achievement Criteria for Advancement: Ultimately, this faction is one where PCs work to curry favor with divine forces, like every other religion. Even just OOCly as a goal, if the PCs are particularly selfless or the like. With this in mind…
Sin (our directly opposite faction I will be comparing us to a lot) is a faction where PCs have a LOT of room to join the faction, to make a mark on it, and to have their character have a legacy. This is essentially what you kind of want out of this game, on an OOC level, this game is a collection of stories from the point of view of different players, and this faction is designed well to accommodate these stories via…
The Four Horseman (4) The Four Ministers (5) The Discarded (7) The Starovdavni (7) The Witches (7)
=30
And then, 3x7 for 3 Lords for each Sin (21) EDIT: I was told the Starovdavni are actually just names for the First Lord. So 2x7 (14)
So, in total, 51(EDIT actually 44) places for PCs to occupy, and to have their legacy live on, to be actively seen, rewarded by their patrons, etc. In fact, these characters can persist across wipes as ECs(?) to help the faction in the future. Great. Awesome.
Furthermore, when people get some of these ranks, they get special abilities. From my recollection, EACH Lord rank equates to +1 Boon from that Sin. Horsemen have their own special abilities, Witches are curses, Starovdavni suck dracula’s dick for power, Discarded keep their powers despite being thrown away, high ranking Lords get Hakkaisen. Each Sin has its own ‘flames’ that can be earned, each Sin has an ‘energy’ they can use - Gouki, Wicca that can be boon’d or just given to people since everyone has Gouki.
These things are earned through a lot of RP and development into their Sin, working to accomplish missions for their Sin Lords that aren’t always fighting and oftentimes fighting ECs and the like.
This is interesting, I’d even say that the design is pretty good and fairly well fleshed out, actually. It creates a level of ludonarrative resonance insofar as the faction itself supports the players and what they want OOC and IC and gives them different routes and also different routes to meet their goals. It gives players agency and choice and something to strive towards, alongside support from their ECs, past players, etc (more on that later).
It is actively FUN to play Sin. I’ve also played just a touch of that as Ifra in Msir. I’m sure there are some problems that some Sin players have seen but…
Now we compare that to Light. Light does not have any rankings, does not have any true structure of recognition or accomplishment aside from rankings made by the Church of Arcadia. Okay, so, we have…
1 Pope - but the Pope isn’t actually even listed in the religion forum document, nor do they get anything aside from being able to name… 4 Cardinals - each Cardinal is neat and cool, sure.
I am only counting what you can earn in game. I am not counting the Seraphim because they aren’t a POSITION / they aren’t their own thing, you can get them while being something else (and that’s fairly common from what I’ve seen). Nor am I counting the Minor Angels because aside from ECs and huge (25 point) DRs, I know that noone will ever be earning one of those for their actions.
Okay, so we have 5 positions that people can earn in Light Vs 51(44) in Darkness.
Cardinals perks ARE Boon level, I’ll 100% admit that. They’re great, cool, nice. Good. In fact, they’re better then the underwhelming Light Boons I’ve seen (more on that later). Cool. Now, for advancement itself through actions, aside from the rankings that you can get that help you advance…
Darkness can do missions for their Sin, given to them by their leaders / Zero Lords etc, (ie. Drusilla and Vespera being commanded to fight for Third Lord), they can get traction, get a sense for them working towards the right end, and earn things through their IC achievements.
We, on the other hand, cannot. I was told early on that NOTHING I RP’d mattered. That no work I did to foster my Virtue, to help strengthen the Church and make it a strong faction again had any influence on advancement for myself or for the other people as part of the Church, no matter how many sermons, or prayers, or anything. That the ONLY thing I could do is go out and fight Darkness people and kill them. That the Angels do not give missions or tasks etc.
So, then, we ask if we can track down ECs to fight, since Darkness often gets fed off of them. Radio silence. So, we’re being pushed towards fighting PCs. Excellent. The only thing we can do to progress is to fight, not RP, not work our way up rankings or anything like that. Our faction has noticeably worse achievement criteria for advancement. I’m not going to really tolerate the whole ‘but that’s how it should be / but that’s how it is’, because that’s a cop-out.
This game is a constructed environment that is malleable and this current formation is a result of a lack of detail, interest, care, or time put into Seraphic, as opposed to the absolute excess of the very same put into Sin. With work, the Seraphic could have a strong structure. Part of the reason why we bleed so much Seraphic players is that they feel DIRECTIONLESS, that they can’t do anything, and they might as well play something else if they aren’t top dogs that can’t conceivably fight because their RP / work / time they put in truly does not matter at all, as opposed to Sin where people will be scored for how well they RP their Sin, and things they have accomplished in their Sin’s name.
One argument I can envision is someone saying ‘Light is a PvP-centric faction, so that’s why it’s this way’. But then I ask ‘why’? Because again, this is not an objective space where things are built this way without human factors. Why is it a PvP-centric faction, whereas our opposite is not? Why cannot we have multiple routes to achievement, we can’t be rewarded for our achievement outside of combat, etc? Why do we have so few places and positions for players to pass on their legacy? Why can’t we fight some of ECs in the 51(44) person rank structure of Darkness rather than be pushed towards other players when the admins actively dislike PC battles?
Quantity of Boons For this section, I’ll consider ‘Boons’ as not just the Boon perk given, but also ‘Boon-level’ things because I’ve had arguments that involve this so I’ll just also make mention of this.
So, generally, high level Light characters (ones that have been playing for at least 1 year) I’ve seen have 0-1 Boons. Sometimes, they have other Boon-level things. I, Sylvania, have-
Seraphim Zexal Gabriel Boon Champion Uladh Armor
Great, so I have 4 Boons and disproved my own argument of Light getting shit on, right? No. My Seraphim and Zexal both where something that wasn’t given to me at Admin choice, from my understanding. It was something that two PCs came forwards and ensured that I get through IC actions that make it very much something that was pushed towards me IN SPITE of the artificial roadblocks we get thrown up before ourselves, as my questions regarding these things were not answered (more on that later). Essentially, how I see these first two is gifts from other players and their choices, and from what I’ve heard from the admin side…
Kind of something to shut me up ‘see, you got things, be quiet’.
Regardless, my Uladh armor was achieved through myself buying it with a Shonen Moment, something that theoretically anyone can earn / get / achieve through exemplary RP. Even if I barely see them existing in practice.
So, the only thing that was TRULY given to me for my own achievement in the game was my Gabriel Boon. Cool, nice. I’m not going to pretend I’ve never got anything. That’d be lying, but I will examine the circumstances of how and why I did.
Now, let us examine a potential Third Lord. 1 Boon initially, as they started moving down this path (maybe 2 if they’re an etherion) 1 Boon once they become a Third Lord. 1 Boon-level thing from being Quantified with a Vanguard 1 Boon-level thing from T4 of their Demon type.
So, easily, despite myself being some sort of ‘champion’ of the Seraphic who is the highest caliber of exemplar of Light (in theory), any old baller who is going for one of the 7 Third Lord positions can just get the same quantity. I’ve heard that Sariens get more boons but so far that ain’t my experience.
But you, my listener, may go ‘oh but Light boons are much more potent anyway!!!’
About that…
Quality of Boons The boons that I’ve seen given to people for their achievement for the Light suck.
My Boon gives me +100 Mental Resistance against Darkness + 20% of my Mental Resistance is projected to Lightbearers closeby to me. It was later given a bit of stats when I asked, as it originally gave no stats.
It’s described in a cool way ‘small angels in your brain ward your thoughts’. Very nice. Then, another Boon I’ve seen for PC achievement comes from Jegudiel (Diligence).
1k Stamina to take another action during your turn. Pog, very cool, nice. 50% reduction to the effectiveness against Gravity Techniques used on you.
Cool. So, now, I say that NEITHER OF THESE BOONS ACTUALLY ARE AN EFFECTIVE COUNTER TO THEIR SIN. Someone with 200 Spirit or more can just use Pinkearth as its Spirit vs Mental Resistance attack to still fuck you over even if you have this boon that is supposed to be ‘your brain is behind seven angel firewalls that render you impervious to Lust’s manipulation’.
The Jegudiel Boon doesn’t EVEN COUNTER Sloth techniques. It’s supposed to be ‘you’re super fast and efficient’, but it doesn’t do anything about Flames of Sloth based stuff, and using the stamina drain would just fuck you up against them because Sloth is about draining stamina. The weakening of Gravity Techniques doesn’t even really help because if you get into a fight with any Sloth person they’d just go ‘doesn’t say it weakens my Sloth techniques that tire you or put you to sleep’.
Furthermore, these boons cannot be used for techniques based on their Virtue. I asked, I got a flat ‘no’. So, Darkness on the other hand… Can make techniques based on their Demon type, can make techniques based on their special Quantify, can make techniques based on the Sin energy (Gouki etc) they are using, they can get Boons that let them use something like Pinkearth, Hellfire, Flames of Sloth etc which lets them make techniques based off of…
Where is that for us? Where is Raguel giving people Salt or Holyfire? Where is Gabriel giving people like special water? Where is Jegudiel giving people like weapon summoning or haste-like capabilities that can be made to techniques? Why do Virtues not have an energy associated with them, why do we never get abilities that we can work off of to make interesting techniques unless you spend 25 points on a DR to get an angel and have a chance of getting ‘The Tarp Angel’ that doesn’t actually give you anything or a special capability but buffs someone else?
I look at Pinkearth Flames and see… Strong passive effect that works off all of your dark magic. I look at Flames of Sloth and see… AoE draining aura (weak) + passive effect that allows your attacks to drain (both allow techniques to be made off of them). I look at Hellfire Fusion and see powerful buff that renders you COMPLETELY IMPERVIOUS to physical attacks. I look at the Satyr quantify and see an additional toggle buff that doesn’t count as a buff that can be stacked with others and gives strong stats. I look at Eyes of Asmodeus and see an ability that plays off a stat noone has much of in the game for a ‘save or die’ spell essentially because if you fail the save you become a permanent slave to the caster.
Where are our boons of this quality? The actual good shit? I know they exist, I’ve seen stuff like Raciocination. And more can be made as well. And it’s not like these boons I’ve named are special Darkness stuff that only high level people get. Most of the stuff I’ve named are ‘entry level’ that people just got for starting out and for doing a good job as their Sin. They get these wild shit for just BECOMING A THIRD LORD, which everyone goes ‘yeah that’s just replaceable entry level mooks’.
And speaking of mooks…
EC Support ECs exist. Light ECs also exist. Very cool.
As I’m vibing and watching, I see Lilith, Yao, Elizabeth, Dracula, etc walk by, I see them hand people Boons and special abilities and Quantifies, artifacts, etc. That’s cool - old players having an effect on the new guard, fostering their growth, rewarding them, helping them. Nice, interesting design. Their ECs feel less like one dimensional existences and like actual characters that work towards their own ends and like help their faction.
Now we look at our ECs. They just stand around. They don’t train people. They don’t help with things. They don’t do hardly anything EXCEPT fight other, bigger ECs. I’ve asked. I’ve tried to get the ball rolling on things and there’s just a critical lack of interest in that regard. It would be COOL if they took time to actually contribute to the faction and help foster people and strengthen things… We all know they’re full of incredibly busted EC techs that would really help as we fight the incredibly busted EC techs darkness has / their incredibly busted everything.
But only Darkness can give out their busted EC techs. Light can’t. We get characters that don’t really have an existence outside the arc they were introduced in, and don’t add to the faction insofar as be ‘us but cooler’ and really feel like a good excuse for an admin to spawn in as something that would have a huge supermassive DR for any normal person to be like:
‘Hey this thing that you’re saying is weak is actually really strong, stop complaining’, because obviously it is when you appear as an endgame, stacked character intentionally built towards certain ends and not have to play the game like the rest of us. Like our ECs seem like a showcase of the ‘things Light could get in theory but realistically can’t because this special shit isn’t given out to us’. IE. ‘we’re you but cooler and better in every way’.
No Straight Answers / Inconsistent Answers So, this has been getting a bit better of late for ME. This is probably a result of me trying to advocate for Light and the like (though that doesn't help others that I've tried to support but have quit or aren't interested in playing so much anymore, so it's a bit too-little-too-late). I’m able to actually do SOMETHING as Pope, that is to say… Use the holy ouji board to ask the angels a question that they’ll respond cryptically, not at all, or their answer will be completely unrelated to my question. Whatever, I don’t really care. It’s nice to be able to do something as Pope after spending most of a year not being able to do anything mildly ‘popely’.
But - before that. I’ve had lots of people lose interest in playing Light because of this problem - a lack of straight answers, or inconsistent answers. ‘Celestial Swords of the Vatican are supposed to get a special relic’ one admin says, then when asked about that, ‘no’ another says. ‘Hey, what kind of things would Gabriel want me to do’, radio silence. ‘Hey, what are some things I could strive towards for clues towards my Awakening or to unlock my Zexal?’ to the response of ‘you wouldn’t know any of that’.
Playing Light feels like a genuine struggle AGAINST the admins. They’re not working with you. They’re actively seeming like they’re making things more difficult for you, even if that’s not their intention. I ask question about my Cardinals getting their Aparatii, and the answer changes - ‘oh they’re in heaven now noone can get them’, ‘oh they’re lost’ (and I ask if I can maybe do something to find them and radio silence), ‘oh you can only summon them if you kill these targets we’ve given you’. Great. Months later we get an actual answer that we can (maybe) attempt to work off of, if the players didn’t lose interest and stop really playing at this point.
Case Studies Now we’ll look at a few people and ‘where are they now’.
Sylvania I. Uladh - Person who fixed the Church, filled all Cardinal spots, made it the strongest faction in Arcadia. Got some stuff, nice - if unrelated to my accomplishments - but has just an uphill battle to make ANYTHING work or happen and is constantly being told ‘you’re not playing Light correctly, go out and Crusade’. Cool. Because none of the stuff above means anything and the only thing people say is ‘you need to fight darkness’. Seems kinda retarded that the Angels wouldn’t care if their own Church is repaired so as to have future generations be able to Crusade, rather then driving the Church into the dirt… Hmmmm…
Alviria Fruhling - Past Pope, tried really hard, accomplished a bunch of stuff and did genuinely good work as the exemplary Fruhling of this wipe. Doing the best with what they’ve got. Got hit by a ‘your entire build is ruined’ beam after I hear whisperings that they are making EC fights too easy for Xander, by an antagonist that falls to earth randomly, with no buildup or telegraphing, seemingly for the express purpose of ruining Alviria’s character by taking away her core capabilities and essentially the only special thing she could do because Light Sarien life is suffering and we generally suck and can’t measure up to others. I mention them because I don’t ever see Darkness get shit on in this way and they are the other Sarien champion of Light. We got someone that can actively fuck w/ space-time floating around, we got Super Morbius Dracula with the power of how many trees now, and the Gezo are like ‘fuck you in particular’ to Alviria instead of these threats? It just seems very OOC driven to me and is another example why ECs suck because they can just pop out of the ether at any time and do stupid shit like this without any true characterization or buildup. I think a ‘make this player quit the game’ beam is pretty fucking shitty to be honest, intentionally or not and also actually awful design.
Alexander D. Loewe - Arthur’s Loyal Knight, I don’t know his history very well so pardon me. Wouldn’t his selfless service for Arthur for his entire life attract Barachiel’s attention? Or is he too busy loading up ex-Darkness bearers with Boons to care? Would his achievements in battle protecting Arthur against Hafgrim not count? Instead, he was preparing to fight Miguel for a good conclusion to his character and then just suddenly and unceremoniously gets the ‘oh your eyes are gone’ and ruins his chance of that, again, with no telegraphing or communication ahead of time.
And there’s a lot of other stories floating around but these are the ones I feel best equipped to comment on. These are case studies of what you get as Light characters that are devoted - which is generally kind of just fucked over.
But How Do We Improve This? I hate giving criticism without also giving suggestions. I may not be an AGE OF GEZO-ist, but I’ve spent most of my life as a not-child DMing, so I feel I have an understanding of elements of narrative-based game design even if it’s not on the large scale… And to be honest some of the ways to make this a better experience borders onto the area of ‘common sense’.
Achievement Criteria for Advancement / Rankings
- Light should have more rankings / positions etc. Darkness has 51(44), I don’t see why we can’t AT LEAST have a Champion for each Archangel (+8), and then other things of the sort. It gives people a sense of achievement, a sense of goal or direction to work towards, etc.
- We should be able to get rewards from the Angels without involving PvP. Someone who works to foster the Church or Virtues or does things through their RP should get things. This seems so basic I don’t even understand why I need to say it. If Sin can do this, why can’t we?
- Also, if there’s still going to be such a heavy focus on PvP there needs to be more willingness to play Darkness ECs for Light PCs to fight. We can’t just get pushed towards PvP ESPECIALLY when I hear comments of ‘PC fights always suck’, well then WHY are you pushing us towards them with your design decisions? And also why are you telling us to fight a Darkness EC and then us not being able to actually do that because noone will play them or whatever?
- Direction. Players NEED direction. Angels need to give people tasks and things to do like the Zero Lords do. Not just ‘go kill this person’, but other things. I can see Gabriel trying to establish a circle of celibacy within places, I can see Barachiel pushing people to pledge themselves to others to be knights, etc. I wasn’t even here for the last wipe and know the intricate complexities of angel lore I can see these things. There should be multiple routes and options for players as there is in Darkness. It's like the most basic tenet of these games that 'our actions should matter'.
Quantity/Quality of Boons
- Either, more boons should be granted if they’re of the quality of the ones I’ve showcased for Light (kinda sucky), or the boons we DO achieve should be much more powerful (at least to the level where they actually DO counter the thing they are supposed to counter). Especially considering anyone in Darkness is stacked to shit fairly easy with Lord ranks and boons just handed to them by their ECs etc.
- We should receive things as well that allow for techniques / special abilities if we have Boons. I can easily envision Sylvania’s Gabriel Boon used for techniques that effect her own mind as like ‘cleanses’ or something, or be able to radiate that outwards to others closeby as an active version of the passive ability. The Jegudiel Boon should be able to be used to develop swift-like techs or something of the sort maybe focusing on multitasking and the like.
- Aside from the boons we already have being less shitty, we should have actual examples of things that we can work off of - as I mentioned, Holyfire, Salt, so many more things that can be given but just aren’t. Players love things that they can work off of. Plus we should have things that match the energies of Sin, or the flames of Sin, or the x or y of Sin because they have so much stuff.
- Enablement and direction is really important in this regard. Something given like a ‘good job’, or a push towards how someone would work towards something. People get frustrated because we’re blundering around blindly without straight answers trying to accomplish vague and nebulous goals (if anything was told to us) only to get told later on that what we did didn’t matter at all.
EC Support / Adminside Assistance
- Our ECs should actually help foster our faction, train people, work with us. They should have some level of self-direction too towards this end, at least to match the Darkness ECs that have that same level of self-direction and work towards things and help their faction.
- They should be some level of proactive, instead of just hanging out and existing, they could help give the people that are part of the faction things, push them towards things, give them direction and assistance. Foster the faction, genuinely help out and not just hang around. Ultimately, ECs are not the main characters, they are side-characters that exist for the sake of the PCs to enable them and to help with the story.
- Give us straight answers. The whole ‘hehe you can’t know that yet’ is genuinely uninteresting if there isn’t a pre-existing setup for us to EVENTUALLY LEARN. And that’s when it’s being intentional, we can’t exactly do anything for our faction when the goal-posts are moved every time we ask a question.
- The lack of straight answers causes players to quit. I’ve observed this several times with several individuals. I understand that not every admin knows everything especially about a faction that is largely in certain people’s heads for how it works… But there should be more transparency, there should be answers to ‘hey what would my Angel like me to do’ or ‘how would i get this thing associated with my Cardinal rank’, even if they have to go ‘gimme a bit i’ll ask someone that knows’.
- It should not feel like you are actively struggling AGAINST admins who don’t want you to succeed or are obliging you to make you shut up and stop being vocal.
I’m a pretty hopeful individual with things, but after a year idk anymore so we’ll just see if anything comes of this. For now at least I’m going to err on the side of caution and avoid any Light and Sarien based choices personally because I really don’t want to go through some of the crap I’ve experienced a second time with so much of a feeling of wasted time, of doing things for no purpose, and for actively feeling like I had to struggle against OOC arbitrary roadblocks to do or get anything, even if I did really enjoy playing Sylvania as a character. This is a shame because organized religion is probably my favorite thing to RP and I’ve done it in a ton of different games.
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Post by apunknamedvi on Jun 4, 2022 20:10:02 GMT
Some brief critique about this before I give my full opinion, using my own experiences. I have a character whose considered a 'third lord candidate' in Celeste. The only boon-level things she has is her quantification from Yao and her T4 succubus. I only recently got the latter. Upgrading the Demon perk still costs RPP and if you are a natural-born demon--- say you roll Vampire, slime, Succubus, or Imp naturally, you don't get that quantification bonus unless you cash it in as a boon. I've personally not seen any non-Lords get boons unless they were already at the level of a Third Lord and were incentivized to take out the current third lord. Since most sins seem to cannibalize even within their own rankings.
However I will say light, in general, does seem pretty 'eh'. One of the many reasons I haven't tried light is the lack of Lore on the clans associated with light. The lack of progression given to them as said by MANY people who have played light and not just heals here. There's also the fact that there is no real structure? Like Light people just do what they want and are somehow still holy. But if you fuck up as a sin you can quickly get discarded without any warning depending on the sin. (Hello, Pride sucks. Pride is the worst sin to progress in. FUCK YOU LUCIFER and your lack of communication.) Darkness overall though, is far more appealing. Not even because of the 'huehue edgy' because Celeste does not have an edgy personality. But more because most(excluding you, Pride) seem to have a clear sense of direction. A way to progress regardless of how far in the wipe you are. They allow you to play characters who are flawed and still progress, while Light seems to demand uttermost perfection from its champion.
I may try Light next wipe. But only because Time powers are COOL and it seems without deities, Light and Dark are on even playing fields. Hopefully, Sariens can stand their ground easier without being 'booned up'. And Light gets some more Sin-like treatment. Allow characters to progress without being perfect. And be more open about progression paths. Players shouldn't feel like they are constantly fighting against admins OOCly to know what to do to progress their characters.
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Post by DANTE REBORNEDS on Jun 4, 2022 21:56:56 GMT
They have literal identical stat boosts and Light literally just received a full revamp. There are no Lords anymore. There are 2 to 3 relevant Necromantic characters alive by the end of any wipe. Lightbearers destroyed Darkness during the original Sin wipe. Darkbearers barely had anything to do for their Lords this wipe. Many Necromancers had no idea what to do. EC Darkbearers and Lightbearers both overshadow their PC counterparts.
Why discredit the Darkbearers that have genuinely worked their asses off? The only good point here is that Light had no direction.
I shouldn't have to mention how ridiculously difficult any road toward a second boon was on a fully T5'd Lord character, and the amount of background work that the current 'OP' Darkbearers have put in who, by the way, still get trashed on by so much shit on this game despite doing so much.
Light demands perfection? I didn't see Priests standing up to Demon Lords on their own and crusading like the OG Lightbearers did. The only one who did anything like that was John Smith. Apologies if I'm missing someone though.
I'm sorry if this came off as aggressive, but I think discreditting so many Darkbearers that worked their asses off is an ugly thing to do. I understand that you had no direction, but the wipe had a terrible setup and terrible misinformation. Please understand that this wasn't one-sided. Most of us bitched about the same thing. And also, please understand that sermons and rebuilding shouldn't give you boons - just like building a temple shouldn't, despite how inconsistent everything's been. Ask any of the successful non-Lust Darkbearers what they did for each of their boons for me.
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Post by heals on Jun 4, 2022 23:36:34 GMT
@vi
c: Who needs history or any real lore as an Uladh aside from that forum post that gives absolutely minimal. Light Fruhling too have absolutely minimal. Pretty easy removing something that only barely existed anyway.
Yeah, I understand that Darkness, in totality, often doesn't have as much things as I theorized in my post here. I was looking more about 'potential' for growth that they have a lot higher amounts in my view. From my playing of Darkness for a bit and from my watching of them, they always seemed to just have more freedom and ability to act, to get rewarded, etc.
@kat
For your first two sentences I assume you're talking about the next wipe. I'm not really dealing with next wipe at all in my post. I honestly am not going to be playing Light next wipe, because it, in my view, feels absolutely lobotomized with one clan, that the interesting part (religion) is removed, that revamped Crusader and co feels 'eh' and very 'too little too late'. I'm also very wary with how Light felt to play for the past year. Regardless-
I am not discrediting Darkbearers who have worked for their stuff. This post is not meant to be a hit on them. Especially you, since I know how hard you tried on Saorise and all the shit that really made it difficult and was anticipating our eventual confrontation as Light Uladh Champion and Dark Uladh Champion... Before an EC just killed you instantly and cut off that thing. My point is that, systemically, Light is worse then Dark, and the amount of effort someone puts into playing Light would receive so much more traction, reward, notice, care, lack of roadblocks and enablement instead playing Darkness from what I've seen.
And yeah ECs just suck in general.
We did TRY to go out and do things, but we where stonewalled when it comes to EC darkbearers to hunt, and PC darkbearers just hide under Dracula, so we can't really do that either. But even under those limitations we still tried (and are trying for as much as that matters now). Likewise, sermons and rebuilding not giving boons? Sure. But they should be rewarded /somehow/, I feel. If a PC takes time and effort to do something, should their action not matter? I made a joke about how if I did the same thing I did as Sylvania, but instead make a Lust (or EVUL SIN) Church in someplace I'd get showered with shit (especially if I recieved the same traction/turnout for my masses as I did during this wipe), and I think that joke is kinda relevant in terms of this concept.
If working for the betterment of your religion as a whole shouldn't be rewarded, then that doesn't really make sense. Especially since everything was fucked previously and someone rises up to unfuck it. I'm not even talking personal power, but like... Getting given a few things to hand out to their underlings as they rebuild the structure in order to stabilize and strengthen the faction. That would have been nice. I wish to provide for my CHILDREN.
But I think this also kind of misses the point because I don't REALLY want this to be ABOUT me, I want it to be about Light itself and the players who where trying. I'm just the one who stuck this out, there's plenty more who haven't gotten anything, or have gotten tired of this and quit. These are the people I want to try to mostly speak for and try to see what I can to contribute my experience towards maybe making a better one in the future, even if that's a faint as hell hope.
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Post by DANTE REBORNEDS on Jun 5, 2022 0:20:15 GMT
I understand, and I apologize for my prior tone, but a lot of things were genuinely offensive to certain people and misinformed in that the other side really was not as happy as you think it was. People did not get boons on a plate. I don't know what Lust did or how it did it, so I'm disregarding that because I'm unaware of the intricacies of it. You sometimes ended up a Lord with 0 boons though. I've done it before. Someone else has done it this wipe too. Many roles in Darkness were inconsequential.
As a whole, having played Lightbearers and Darkbearers alike, the Magician professions are equal in statistical power. Crusader is fine not as a profession, because it was terribly vague, but statistically due to Weapon and MA perks. Exorcist was theoretically fine, but it did not have much to it for a bit. Cleric was broken.
My point being that the Lightbearer PCs came around so late. The roles would easily be reversed if we all swapped RPP, and just like you couldn't harm Wallachia, we couldn't harm Arcadia regardless, both because of ECs and because of your Dracula equivalents. In the end, many Darkbearers complained about these same things that you're bringing up right now, and the majority of people who did become Lords went through bad struggles.
In regards to boons, I did not design the Seraphic Pantheon or anything like that. I don't fully know what's right and what isn't. That is fully on the Admin side to describe and explain, as I cannot beyond the scope of crusading and so forth.
On the other hand, this is all crying over spilled milk, as Gravity is now a Sloth ability, Soul Reaper is reworked, Summoner is removed, Light Magic is revamped, Crusader has a very clear identity, and so on - from next wipe onward, anyhow. Lightbearers will perform nicely.
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Post by heals on Jun 5, 2022 1:42:59 GMT
We'll have to see if this improves as time goes on. ECs will likely still be a problem, both for and against a particular group, and I imagine even if gods/angels/demons don't exist, different types of 'boon' or 'boon equivalents' will suffer from these problems. I can see in advance Fairy Tale Magic as an example as special powers given out to individuals may suffer from Boon problems as I mentioned here especially if they are associated with particular factions/groups, but we'll need to see and this is just speculation. Likewise, clear directions and transparency I imagine will still be a problem.
Barring any improvements that occur in the interim, if they do happen. I'm staying very cautious.
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Post by tomk on Jun 5, 2022 1:49:29 GMT
The Cardinals at a base are essentially boons in their own right. However it extends past that if those that possess said rank develop them. Much like the Horsemen, you can synchronize with them. Much like Lord ranks, you can gain weapons pertaining to your rank, in the form of Cardinal Weapons.
A lot of that wasn't seen due to inactivity on the end of Cardinals (and I am a contributor), and on the latter end -- cardinal weapons being gone from the Church. Something you know well already.
Zexal is one of the strongest buffs in the game. There is no sin ability that compares to it.
The roadblocks you refer to as artificial are a result of how things have gone throughout the wipe. ECs you were hunting? An issue of that being (allegedly) done during the epilogue. The Church being dead and shit in the first place? Pope Rank being fucked up early. Your circumstances have been shit from the very beginning and that's only continued since.
As far as Sin Boons go -- generally speaking you receive one upon becoming a Lord, yes. It is uncommon for you to receive one prior. Quantifications are minor Boons, even in the way of Zero Lord quantification, and in some cases can even nerf you. T4 Demon Types in their own right additionally have their own secret requirements that you have to find out or reach on your own, free of hints.
Unless you developed further you aren't an actual Champion. Your boon for MR is toward the sin you counter, and designed to make it easier for you to fuck up Lust. Both of your boons are overt nerfs to what you're fighting -- Jegudiel's actually in fact helping at a baseline because Sloths are meant to use Gravity. That is their kit. Sloth Fire is an -individual- ability from what Sin uses; their individual Hellfire boon. This is the same case for Pinkfire. Justice in particular possesses an ability like this if I recall correctly. More things that haven't been pursued thoroughly as a result of circumstance.
The event character issue that plays out with Light VS. Darkness is a matter of again -- you guys got fucked early. The rest didn't appear later. And beyond that -- the issue of focus going to Sin because there is a vastly higher portion of people interested in sin. It's a fucked oversight but that's how things played out, especially with Light being completely out of the loop for half of the wipe.
As far as cases go-- the Angels don't care about anything if it isn't murdering the sin. You've known this for awhile. Tasks are just murder. It fucking blows but that's really it. There was nothing personal about Alviria's situation. Fruhling itself was just disliked for being able to do so much, because it was not properly implemented. There is no OOC drive. The Gezo target people that attempt to take Trees -- and she attempted to do it directly in front of an operative. There's really nothing else to that. Barachiel's whole job is conversion. Of course that is usually his focus.
I don't mind there being more tasks for Light beyond fighting. That'd be neat. A lot of the issues with ECs not being around in the first place has revolved around admin availability, on top of those ECs either being 1) dead or 2) too strong. The comments you hear about PC fights sucking are from players, or admins seeing how much bickering goes on during PC fights out of desperation on both side.
Direction can use work on both sides. Most of it is chalked up as "this should be obvious". I cannot deny that. But that's hinged on task availability on one end.
Your boons are stronger the later you go in. Some of which allow you to in fact create techniques derived from them (that is how Hellfire works for the sins, as well). These abilities are seldom acquired because of the other issues.
Most EC help goes toward previous PCs being around. That's dependent on the people playing them. The ones beyond that have actually helped you guys, and have enabled. One such example would be with Lucius & Cicero; the rest couldn't appear in the first place because that would be interacting with who else they play in some cases.
That pretty much ends what I can address properly. I will say that yes -- both ends did go through the ringer. Sarien has been a mess in its entirety and as seen it's been getting repaired to have more of an identity, and less inconsistent or troublesome to progress.
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Post by heals on Jun 5, 2022 2:47:08 GMT
Thank you for the cohesive response that addressed these concerns, criticisms and observations seriously. I did not mention what happened earlier on in the wipe because I wasn't there. I focused it specifically and pointedly towards the experiences I have had and what I have heard from other people or seen myself. Ie. Individuals quitting, moving goalposts, lack of transparency, etc etc.
I mentioned during my post that I'm not AGE OF GEZO MASTER. I'm fairly new, having only really played this for ~ a year at this point. Likewise, I do not know all points of context/lore, nor do I know things on the admin side. I will plead lack of transparency and communication for that last bit. There's certainly a few things I have been told. Cardinal weapons being MIA, then lost, then only obtainable via killing Darkness. Tasks being radio silence for the longest time, and then being turned into only killing Darkness as you mentioned.
There are also things I do not know. For instance, Cardinals being able to do more with what they have. I've never seen that myself, though I have heard of it from stories of others, like Prudence Eyes. But from my understanding I'm uncertain if they can actually make techniques based on their Cardinalness until they reach an arbitrary point where they're allowed to unless I'm wrong. I did not even know until far later that I can ask if my Seraphim knows things that I didnt. Regardless-
Yeah. There's elements in your response that I didn't know, but I actually think that /adds/ to what I'm saying in some areas as well. Though - before that it's good that you also feel Light should have more variance in their tasks then just 'go kill things'. I imagine Raguel would give tasks like that because that's literally his thing, but the others should have other objectives or goals that they should and would want to shove their pawns/champions/clergy etc towards doing. It only makes sense that other objectives exist to work on as Virtue.
But, what I was saying as 'adding', I'll just mention here. Lack of transparency, clear answers, and explanations of these things given when questions are asked. Or those answers suddenly changing later on to completely fuck people up who have been working towards something they were told. I also find that admins and people are very willing to answer questions about Darkness/Sin but radio silent generally when it comes to Virtue/Seraphic. I imagine this is because they also have no idea so there isn't just admin -> player problems with communication and documentation most likely. That is an area for improvement, I envision. This still doesn't really mitigate the problems themselves, and I will still caution new players I invite to avoid Light and Sarien for the foreseeable future because I have no idea how it's going to end up and if it will fully improve. I'll just have to see.
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Post by tomk on Jun 5, 2022 3:31:21 GMT
Yeah I'm not faulting you for not knowing all this shit. Or not entirely knowing just how much of a mess was left in the wake of the Church's downfall early on. Especially because there is a lot of this stuff that in general most people wouldn't know. I definitely understand that you weren't familiar with the Cardinal abilities - at best Kura would be able to inform you since he got the farthest if I recall correctly, with Justice in particular (even became Raguel's Champion). Advancing it mostly leads down the same route of just doing tasks and pleasing Angels so that they recognize you as worthwhile. Of course, that's difficult in of itself especially considering circumstances.
Of course. It's only natural that some of this being divulged into presents some of the same problems that do remain consistent in being cognizant of all of these things. It's not perfect, and even with the general 'scheme' of how things like this work meant to not be perfect, it's still rough. Raguel is the most 'kill-happy' in a sense as justice but Gabriel & Raphael (especially the latter) would probably be the ones more likely to present other things, knowing how he is.
Transparency's being worked on bit by bit as other admins familiarize themselves more and likewise remember to pass on the information that can be publically provided. At the same time rather than simply leaving bits of information to be flooded out in channels and what not I and others have been putting in the effort to actually record things, which will likewise be posted up and maintained henceforth to avoid digging or other tedium that shouldn't have to be dealt with. Same with changes in answers & such. All of the information flow issues are being recognized and properly jumped at as we go.
As far as the Seraphic pantheon goes, I can somewhat assure you that for the most part the radio silence on them can be attributed to the issue of Angels in general bearing that design philosophy of staying very stand-offish without drastic lengths (take for example, the Chugoku Church's actions even if those were ECs) to garner their attention. Some of it is a matter of that simply not changing either. Buuuut -- as far as the future wipe goes Light shouldn't be nearly as much of an arms race for boons with the absence of those & deities / deity-like figures next wipe. I'd recommend next wipe in particular as the best time to give it a shot for others, if they do find themselves still intrigued even if you do in fact dissuade them. I do not blame you for taking a step away from it yourself though after going through the myriad of debacles associated with it.
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Post by apunknamedvi on Jun 5, 2022 18:15:43 GMT
So in a nutshell, being a Sarien sucked for almost everyone this wipe? Makes sense. I saw a lot of Dark people struggle too. We have a small handful of successes such as Maribel and Dracula in terms of powerful, lategame Dark sariens. But beyond that? Playing a Sarien has been ass. Even Lust which is often called 'easy mode' due to its sexual focus got continuous hate on it. Some Lust characters including one of mine were killed in part due to their association with Lust even if they didn't do rapey shit or hurt anyone (and miscommunication, don't forget how often that kills people.). The only reason I feel Teikoku in epilogue rn tolerates dark bearers--- more specifically lust is because... we got no where else to go if we want RP on those dark characters.
I hope Seraphics, Sin and other forms of Sariens get revamped should they return wipes following after the next. I'm hoping sariens will be able to stand on their own two feet next wipe without boons.
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Post by scorpio on Jun 6, 2022 18:56:29 GMT
At its core, this should not be viewed through the lens of light or dark, but through the lens of proactive forces versus reactive forces. Age of Gezo since time immemorial has had an ebb and flow of protagonism against antagonism, and Light/Dark often finds itself in the middle of this due to Dark being a rewarding medium of antagonism rewards. This is important because it's a core, narrative balance that - at least ideally - provides levers and switches for players to create their own experiences with one another and be less reliant on EC storylines. There are conversations to be had about that in a different format, but this is the crux that I think this post loses sight of.
Risk versus reward. Dark players do things, receive their rewards, and in turn are -reacted- to by Light players who will receive their rewards and/or enablement for overcoming this adversity.
The few points this post make are unfortunately muddled by ad hominem and insinuated attacks on the effort or intentions of other players and admins, additionally, and as a Light player myself I cannot agree with this. As someone who's represented Light in some form or fashion, be it my short-lived Pope last wipe, or my very much alive and well Champion of Jegudiel this wipe, I disagree with the notion of Light being 'weak' in any capacity. There may or may not be arguments to be made for the -access- to Light's power, but that should not be confused for the power itself which 100% equals or surpasses that of Dark when properly achieved. The fact that my boon from Jegudiel - which you reference - does not directly answer Sloth on top of its action economy benefits is a -balanced- and -healthy- choice, as no one perk should be a complete toolkit all its own. It provides more to work for, more to achieve, and should not be looked at in a vacuum as representative of what Jegudiel can or cannot do. There are also story factors themselves to consider concerning angels and their views of humanity, and while I won't disclose those IC facets here, it's a bit disingenuous to claim intricate knowledge of angel lore when the opposite is being shown here.
Adrian, Maribel, and the dark players you reference should not be vilified here to make a point. While arguments can certainly be made for points you present like Light ECs being more engaged in training, making these points at the expense of belittling the work and accomplishments of your fellow players is not the way to do so and detracts from the integrity of this post. Characters like you and I, who came into existence much later than those who now represent some of the strongest forces of Dark, should not use that as an indicator of some inherent problem; after all, the first half of the wipe was completely reversed with Light PCs and ECs dominating the equation.
Angels are constants, often frustratingly so to those who pledge service to them without fully comprehending what is expected of them, and at their core are alien in their perception of humanity. What this means is that you cannot appeal to some sense of emotion or hasten your perceived needs with desperation for power, but what it -does- mean is that you should always have sight of the core values they embody, and make informed decisions about what you can do when an immediate juxtaposition isn't being thrown into your face to react to. Barachiel, for example, does not have his favor curried by - through the example you gave - being in service to another, but through being merciful and willing to work to redeem those to whom you are opposed. What is more narratively impactful for a Barachiel play: Alexander simply being the Knight of another, or Alexander forgiving Miguelote and working to reform him into a better human being when nearly every other player would love to murder him upon the spot?
There's more to be made here, and more that -should- be made here, but unfortunately waking up and being coffee-deprived is starving me from a lot of articulation, atop a general weariness of having to address this same argument time and again. Attacking other players and admins through a pessimistic lens devalues this post, unfortunately, but these are the core points I wanted to address.
TL;DR. Light is ultimately fine and the variables outside of any one person's control should not be used to skew the narrative flow of proactivity and reactivity.
[Addendum: Lazily reposting this response from your Suggestions submission for the sake of transparency/consistency.]
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Post by heals on Jun 7, 2022 3:14:02 GMT
Okay sooo-
Thank you for taking the time to make a longer reply to my post. I'll address yer points.
- As mentioned during the talk to TomK, this is not about belittling the dark players. This is about Light, and a necessary comparative lens needs to be taken as Satanic Order/Sin Dark is the faction that Christian Light is tied to intrinsically and functions as a foil to. I'm sure they've done very great things and earned all the stuff they got, that's not in question here.
- Furthermore, I have not pointed out any particular admins or individuals to which I say are doing a bad job. My thesis here is that the problem is systemic, not bound to particular individuals. It may or may not be a bit of a strengthening of this point that someone should take this post as a personal attack when I give criticism to a system itself, having a strong emotional connection to it that elicits a very 'angry bee swarm' reaction (i've been DM'd a lot about how things are all actually fine or will be and I just don't understand) when I call it and how things are done into question. I do know that I wrote this from a place of rather intense frustration and that obviously colors my post, but I feel it might be good to look past that at the points I make.
- Your tagline of the conceptualization of Dark is proactive, Light is reactive is interesting, but I don't think that's necessarily a constant. This wipe is an example of that, from the limited knowledge I understand, ECs like Elric proactively went out to eat a World Tree to do their whole 'cleanse the world of sinners', while Raguel last wipe went to Teikoku to do much of the same. Light can very much be a force that IS proactive, it matters who is playing it and if they are given clear information about things. If I knew Tenryuujoutei had a World Tree and was over Muscle Mountain / Wine, for example, I would have proactively done something about that as Sylvania, visiting there, stationing defenses, etc as I have ties to the place because of John Smith + Kurisu/Amelie + Chieko and it would have been IC for me to do that (though asking for people to play the ECs for that visit is another story).
- I am not a super Age of Gezoist, as I have mentioned. I absolutely do not claim intricate knowledge of angel lore, I claim the opposite. I am new to this game, furthermore, my lack of knowledge as Pope, as someone that has been trying to compile lore and information to give to my newer players and the like and DMing people to learn more, ask more things about the Seraphic, seeing less documentation about Light in general and then also being answered by silence (probably not out of malice and instead out of the person I'm asking having no idea) is another example of the lack of transparency and information that I've encountered so far.
- Your idea of forgiving and working to reform Miguelote is very interesting. However, de facto I highly doubt that such a scenario is feasible, as ECs are not usually played as consistently or in a way that would allow for a storyline like that from what I've seen. Furthermore, Alexander has been an exceptionally devoted knight to Arthur at his own detriment at several points and has played a highly consistent character in this regard. I do think that counts for something. It would be nice, as mentioned in your post and in mine, for our ECs to maybe work to help the faction they're part of. Though I'm afraid that ship has largely sailed this wipe with most of my previously thriving Lightbearer community having stopped playing...
All in all, I think the best point you have is the whole 'light is reactive, dark is proactive'. I think you're actually on to something with that and it lends strength to my own post. Light being reactive is the bag we are shoved into. The opportunities that we have to be proactive aren't exactly something we have access to. This way of thinking leads us into what I and TomK was discussing - that Light is only rewarded for reacting, instead of being proactive. This mentality has filtered down into the gameplay of the faction, meaning that instead of Light players being given tasks (aside from killing Darkbearers for their only route to advancement), we all need to sit around and wait for the Darkbearers to do something, and then we can act, because it doesn't matter what we do because none of it matters except reacting.
In essence, our design is worse. We are pidgeonholed into this role. This actively makes Light worse to play because of this design decision. It incentivizes us to be inactive, to be 'bench sitters', instead of having an impact on the world. It is not a 'narrative flow', it's a narrative one-way-door. Satanic / Sin Darkness makes RP within its own faction (Lord feuds, big personalities moving around, a whole hierarchy to navigate, tasks/missions), and then it makes RP within the larger world, it is incentivized to do both. We are incentivized to wait and sit around for them to make moves for us to respond to. We don't have an incentive to make RP within our own faction. Again, I'm no Age of Gezoist, but don't the Archangels also have BEEG personalities? Raphael/Selaphiel's 'restraining order', Gabriel being a petty bich, Barachiel trying to redeem, Raguel trying to purge and having no chill. Like we should have things, shouldn't we? I'm sure they're super alien and whatever, but aren't the Zero Lords also? This is what I would like fixed if situations similar to this come up again. That not just Dark should get tasks to complete and have a chance to act, that we should also be able to have chances to act as well and be given tasks and the like. I can't accept the espoused status quo of dark-proactive, light-reactive, because it actively works against the players and their enjoyment.
Thank you again for taking the time to respond to my post, I liked that element of your post regarding light-reactive, dark-proactive. It actually echoes heavily of Eternia which had much the same sentiment for Holy vs Necromancers, then Demi-Angels vs Nethradin, then Knights/Celestialism vs Witches/Demons, then [insert the million other times this has happened] and it was shitty in all the same ways each time. Though at the same time I hope you don't just see what I'm saying through the lens of an attack, because it's criticism of a system of doing things, not of individuals within that system. I know that (a few) others have already discounted what I have said as an attack and ignored it (or didn't pay much attention), but this is an attempt to move forwards, colored as it may be what I feel as sisyphean frustration at trying to push a rock uphill.
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Post by yaori on Jun 9, 2022 13:17:47 GMT
To jump into this really quickly, i think we are taking too much stock in how things are being said vs what is being said here.
At it's core we are looking at light vs dark.
Is there a difference in how they are played? Yes.
That's fine and good.
Are the kits meh at best? Yeah, but that's okay because alot of kits have this issue.
The core issue, i think, is inconsistency in light. These values we refer to that the angels uphold are basically existing to shut down the idea of violence. They exist as the antithesis to what darkness stands for, but there is no reward there.
What i see at the core of this argument is this difference.
Sloth - Rewarded for laziness; low LC is good; spread laziness; kill Wrath - Mald, fight, win, kill Pride - Very restrictive (acceptable) self reliance and self promotion Lust - ERP (let's be honest here), save Asmodeus, steal chastity. Greed - Core Item (greed focus), money, steal or attain influence. Gluttony - Eat (people or otherwise) in excess AKA mine AND yours Envy - (i don't understand this well enough to judge but) Wanting
But what we are told about angels Patience - Kill Chastity - Kill Humility - Kill Bravery - Kill Diligence - Kill You get the point.
I think what they're saying is there is no equality in this rewarding system.
Now, if it's MEANT to be like that to promote reactivity by a strength idea (IE X necromancer gets strong from promoting X so they now feel confident enough to attack Y. This gives Z priest a chance to promote Z by extinguishing X) Then it would have been nice to have this established rather than be basically told at every turn that you don't do anything. Clarity of direction is what I'm getting at. We basically went a whole wipe like "necromancers are being rewarded by furthering their agenda" so we assume the same is the case as light.
This is what it boils down to.
Now we worry alot about accuracy from the perspective of religions and region figures, but apparently not where seraphic is concerned. If we are gonna do it like this, do not provide us with a false Bible and incorrect mentality and expect people to run with it. But this cycles back to transparency which is covered in another section so i prolly don't need to go into it.
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Post by benemuel on Jul 10, 2022 3:21:37 GMT
This is a more small point but, it ties into the whole, Darkness is Proactive, Light is Reactive thing. Darkness, in theory, gets rewarded for being proactive. They can plot out a series of actions that can theoretically reward them ahead of time. They can potentially be so massive and rewarding, that the person gets a massive boon for it that gives them a ton of power.
If light is reactive, and needs to react to get boons, this gives a major issue: The people they're fighting can potentially have boons already, while they're just Joe McCrusader who only has stock techniques and perks. While it's not been a big problem, it has the potential to be one if all light can do is react. It just leads to them sitting around, waiting for the evil to happen, and reacting after wards. Which also, I'm speaking from personal experience here, leads to some players hating light because they 'don't do anything to protect people', leading to them going to Sin, just to avoid being next up on the sacrifice for power block.
That alone is a pretty self-defeating cycle for light. Darkness burns a town, gets a boon, Light shows up, even if they win they're 'to late', people hate light for not killing the person before they went evil, decide that the only way to not be murdered by darkness is to go darkness, so they join sin, murder a town, light reacts, more people see light as really slow to deal with problems.
And on and on.
That's not a problem with people IMHO, that's a problem with the system of how light is made to act and it VERY much hurts their retention because players don't want to PLAY the reactive faction generally. I've tried a ton of times to play light sariens and each time I ended up bored because we just sat around, so I went and made a lust person and I, personally, got boons within a short period of time. And I wasn't exactly putting more effort into being horny, than I was for being pious. I'll leave that as a closer for this.
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Post by tomk on Jul 12, 2022 13:47:00 GMT
Light's optionally reactive; the same goes for Dark. You can be proactive and that is how you benefit. It's circumstances that force reactivity vs. proactivity. If one is stronger than the other then more often than not the weaker side is more apprehensive on acting (which is what was seen this wipe).
It's player-choice to be reactive or active. The only part that isn't is ease of access to rewards for acting, and even that isn't skewed too heavily.
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